Dealbreaker

This guy nailed it. That's because in all these banks the more senior people (some of which participate on this site with seemingly clever remarks about guys like Jon Mauldin) are complete jerks with no sense of what's the limit of decency. By the way, does that mean that UBS has an opening they might be looking to fill?...Just wondering...

"I have at least 14 more hours of work to do today that will not be fulfilling, useful, appreciated, recognized, or paid for."

Waaaah, poor Jonathan. You are not a special little flower. Every year you see the same sentiments echoed by the same fools that can't hack it. No matter how many times they are told you are just going to be a spread sheet monkey locked into their cubicle cage, these self entitled clowns always surface. There is a reason you make 6 figures straight out of school as an analyst. It is because you are expected to work absurd hours doing mind numbing, unappreciated work. That's just the way the world is. You have to look forward to future paydays as well, as if you stick it out in the business and are succesful...well, that's why people want to go into IB. You're there to get paid, not accomplish anything world changing.

I am long Jonathan having played little league were no score was kept, and that letter grades, when given, were never written in scary red ink.

Maybe its just me, but I figure you should be more than 6 weeks in before you have a mental breakdown... although I do love the letter

Oh quit your damn job. Americans have it so easy working 120 hours a week in a temperature controlled climate.

Try one of my old gulags while your kids are sold as slaves and your wife/lover is put to work in Battery Factory #4 in Siberia.

Now, that was management.

On my FO note I just wrote, "I'm sorry."

And, man was I. I still hate the Chinaman.

i don't blame these people at all, no one actually enjoys doing the work, everyone that sticks it out either convinces themselves that they don't hate their life because they make enough money to think otherwise, or their sociopaths. Either way, this kid obviously wasn't one of them. So good for him, happy travels.

Of course he's special - he has to use three names to avoid confusion with other Jonathan Maudlins.

Didn't he realize what the job entailed before he took it? One would have thought that he would have done a little basic research into the life of an investment banking analyst at some point in his job search. It's universally agreed that "long hours" and "it sucks" are pretty accurate descriptions...it's not some big secret.

I'm sorry to hear that his feelings got bent out of shape when he was yelled at but leaving IB won't change that in the short term. No matter what your job is, whether it's Wall Street finance or McDonald's, the low people on the totem pole tend to take the most crap. It's called paying your dues.

Guys, there's a difference between long hours/ stress and pulling a no-home weekend.

I think the banks are going to have to start paying more (or less load) to keep top talent. The internet and information revolution have created too many opportunities for Ivy League types to keep them locked in white shoe firms doing sh** work.

Jonathan sounds like a smart guy to me. He needs to read the the 4 Hour work Week to help recover.

ANON 2:19

You see, this is another delusion. 'Top talent'? Joey from SUNY could and would do the job just as well Chet from Princeton. Because the banks are able to turn down plenty of Chet's before they even have to dip into the unwashed masses, the long hours are not going to change. If you can find a job that pays as well without the hours, take it.

Anon 2:19, they already don't keep top talent. We stick out our two years and jump to PE. Or at least that's what the smart ones do. It explains why the vast majority of IB associates are useless. The good ones got PE/VC/HF jobs.

"That's just the way the world is" -
a douchebag sentiment if I've ever read one.

Let's apply that train of thought to other current situations:

There is a reason for suicide bombers to kill innocent people, that's just the way the world is.

It's ok for our government to lead us into war under false pretenses, that's just the way the world is.

Hedge funds lose billions of pension $$$ while the fund partners take home hundreds of millions, that's just the way the world is.

OJ Simpson will go to trial and be acquitted, that's just the way the world is.

You, my friend, are an utter Douche, that's just the way the world is.

maybe, but does not make it untrue.

Correction: its not 2 weeks.

At least 2/3 of the newbie first weeks is cocktails, dinners, internal sell, HR nonsense....so this might be a 72 hr meltdown.

Real impressive.

Had a guy here comeback early from Lasik surgergy and risk blindness just to make sure all was good.....love these jr. razor-blade eating terminators who will rise and eat your lunches

Re: Mauldin get ready for

-dumping by dates who want better and should

-not affording most of NYC life

-being turned down for your future coop, condo

-driving entry Korean....dont even think Japanese....German is like the Forbidden city to you

-Needing guarantors till your 35

-Leaving NYC

-Working close to your old hours for fractions of your $

-And thats for starters

Anon 3:12

And you are a naive liberal fool. I'll take being a douche over that any day. You can apply that train of thought to any situation you want to, but you can't just go ahead and say 'that's the way the world is' without any intermediary qualifiers.

Suicide bombers kill innocent people because of their sick and preverted ideolgy. Sadly, that's the way the world is.

'Hedge funds lose billions of pension money'. In that case, the fund managers aren't making hundreds of millions of dollars, because a 20% performance rip on nothing is nothing. HF managers also make billions of dollars for pensions too. Risk/reward, that's the way the world is.

OJ is a free man mainly because of a group of people who probably vote the same way you do. Unfortunately, that's the way the world is.

Hey, it would be great if we could all pull piles of cash and only work 30 hours a week. Where do I sign up for that job? Oh, that's right, that job doesn't exist because that's the way the world is.

ANON 2:31:

The boys from SUNY or any of the other unwashed masses would crack too - it's just not that BIG of an opportunity once its all said and done. Besides, fewer and fewer of the IVY types want to do it, and some of them aren't cut for it either. Banks need top talent and I just don't see the status-quo remaining.
That said, i'm going BACK to Banking after my MBA - really sad - need help..

Re: to 3:12, if a hedge fund loses "billions" the manager gets nada. How can you take your 20% of zero gains?

re Anon 4:27
Ask Nick Maounis... he'll tell you how

"naive liberal fool" is redundant, isn't it?

Anon 3:59
You are a wise sage. One who can truly comprehend the here and now. The world is what it is. The sky is blue because it is blue. It's true. It's science.

You're probably bitter that you had to put your 120 hr weeks in, and you did without complaint, but now this f*ckin p*ssy can't hack it yet gets all this interweb attention. I get it. You're a veteran. You worked hard. Earned your living. Kids these days don't appreciate an honest buck. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the yadda yadda...

Resp to Anon 4:30....touché

Since I last heard, banks aren't doing any deals now, which means no bonus.

That's right, no six figures, which are relatively meangingless anyway in a city where reasonable living costs me 1250 a month just for rent.

Additionally, what's the good of money when you hate your life?

No bonus means no cool paychecks, NYC life (as if I had one with 2 days off in the last 5 weeks) and no cool people to meet outside of the nice first years in the bank.

I already have a hot Romanian girlfriend who loves me. I date girls who don't love me for money.

The complaint about the job was this: it's not about the hours - it's about being appreciated for working hard. If people don't give a damn whether you work hard or not at your job, they have lost perspective and/or you have lost perspective.

I worked for Salvation Army for three months earlier this year; don't tell me that you have to be mean to junior people to be successful and have a fulfilling life.

Earning your dues is about hard work: not about waking up every morning and hoping a truck runs a red light and hits you crossing 52nd street, because it would mean less verbal abuse during the day.

Yelling at a person after 120 hours for stuff that an associate was incompetent in doing correctly (read the 'smart associate vs dumb associate' stuff from above), is not respectful nor dignified living. BTW I will actually make a lot more money doing other stuff - Watch me.

Additionally, I've done my internships in banking and I knew what I should be getting into. Healthcare UBS is a particularly brutal manifestation of the asshole culture prevalent in some banking groups.

If you were to open up UBS files on my e-mails to friends and families on the subject, you would find some very cool stories there.

As a Katrina survivor, I think I can tell you that things could be worse; but they are about to get a lot better. With several job offers since quitting, who needs to work with people you hate for 9.50 an hour?

Laissez les bons temps roulet!!!!

don't burn bridges, jon.

You may not need to work for UBS again, but what if in future you need a favor from UBS?

"...as a Katrina survivor..."

Ah. That little thing called "perspective" some of the people in this thread are sorely missing. Makes all the difference, doesn't it?

"in a city where reasonable living costs me 1250 a month just for rent."

REALLY? Only 1250???

i worked in new york at a bulge bracket bank last summer. i never worked until 6 am but i still hated it. i wasn't treated with respect, and i wasn't challenged 95% of the time. my boss hardly interacted with me, and i spent many hours during the regular workday sitting around trying to find things to show that i was interested in what was going on and waiting for someone to finally pass me some work in the evening.
for some people, the promise of the payday and the opportunities in the future is enough. some people love the title of being a banker (i'm a female, which might contribute to my disillusionment with the "i'm a banker" image.) everyone is different and we can be successful at different fields. it was HARD to admit that, for once, i wasn't motivated enough to do whatever i could to succeed.
i got a different, excellent but lower-paying job, with people that i really like, who value me and treat me well. i make at least $40 or $60K a year less, but it's worth it to have those few extra hours a day to spend with friends, go to the gym, sleep.
life's a bunch of choices. i admire jonathan for making a difficult one. few grads from top schools actually quit their first jobs when they're miserable even though there are many opportunities for us elsewhere.

Jonathan,

I have some new found respect for you; esp. given the Romanian babe.

Slavic babes are basically all models...with some solid traditional values.

Re: Banking

I've been in it for 17 yrs ( 4 bulge firms) and you are writing off an entire industry based on a few months/summers.

Yes, I have encountered the same....even worse (one boutique fired its entire analyst class [including me] in the early 90s)..however I had the good sense to regroup, change products, firms and found a niche that allowed me to catapult ahead of my peers and have a great life, as well.

There are plenty of great mentors, amazing clients, and great experiences that banking can only bring....at such a young age for regular joes....bull market, .com, PE boom.

Knocking 2yrs analyst programs is like denigrating Marine bootcamp or medical internships....go read how people are literally falling on their faces in those programs and being humiliated hourly or watch you-tube postal outbursts of cubicle psychos in Fortune 1000 companies.

The bottom line is work is work; crappy bosses are everywhere, brown nosers abound and incompetents are the norm.

I know of plenty of analysts including me who made it AND found time for babes, convertibles, weekends away, vacations, toys, and the good life in general......I am sure u met a couple already, and said he is a playboy or not hard core. Well the ones who know how to balance, take risk and play a little hardball are the ones that this business is for.

Think it over, UBS is one shop. Plenty of others....esp, with an analyst right now sitting poolside in LA on "diligence" or in Paris 5* hotelon a roadshow or having a $300 Steak lunch with a cool VP sharing the secrets, while their Associate is cranking! I know b/c i've busted many, but let it slide b/c i did the same.

ps,....I read these blogs to keep my game hip since my dates are your ages!

Time for Lunch.

Try teaching in an urban school for a few weeks. That will make adults screaming at you while you are being paid six figures seem like a great day.

No sympathy from me.

$$$, go fuck yourself.

ivy banker said: "i worked in new york at a bulge bracket bank last summer. ... i wasn't treated with respect, and i wasn't challenged 95% of the time. my boss hardly interacted with me, and i spent many hours during the regular workday sitting around trying to find things to show that i was interested in what was going on and waiting for someone to finally pass me some work in the evening."

You've told me all I need to know right there.

1. You were clearly at a second-tier firm, because NOBODY at Goldman or Morgan feels the need to say "bulge bracket". Needing to say that speaks to insecurity. Kinda like how you needed to point out that you were an IVY banker. Get over your bad self.
2. No respect? No challenge? Well, maybe it's because you weren't making money. You get those when your work pays your salary and those of your hunchbacked minions.
3. Your boss ignored you? Waaah! Grow a pair.
4. You sat around? Why not DO something? Find a way to automate the shitty repetitive part of your work; learn more about what's going on; trade on the side; quit if you get a good enough idea. Anyone willing to sit around and not even use the time to learn something is a worthless twat.
5. Waiting for someone to give you some work? What, did you go beg them with your hands out like Oliver Twist? How about taking some responsibility for your career and demand some work?
6. Doing any of the above would have demonstrated more interest than just sitting around like an unimaginative, unambitious loser. Face it: you're a follower. And you're maybe smart enough to understand your plight and pity yourself. That makes one of us.

Jon Mauldin is a great guy and it's a shame that UBS didn't recognize his value and treat him (and all their other young talent) appropriately. Short this firm!

Go Jon Go! You are meant for better things...

as Carl Sandburg said:
"Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you."

12:08, you sound bitter

Anyone's who's OK by Mark Witte is OK by me, so good luck to you Jon.

I got out of the business a couple of years ago and am happy to report there's life on the other side (stuck it out through my contract and didn't go down with your blaze of glory). Transition might be a little rough since you'll find you're really only highly qualified to do investment banking/private equity. But you'll land on your feet.

get a clue said: "1. You were clearly at a second-tier firm, because NOBODY at Goldman or Morgan feels the need to say "bulge bracket". Needing to say that speaks to insecurity. Kinda like how you needed to point out that you were an IVY banker. Get over your bad self."

I know her, and she was at Morgan. Oops. She's also extremely hot. Given her priorities in life, banking wasn't the proper career choice for her. She chose a more life-oriented work/life balance over a near six-figure bonus and an accelerated career track. I'm pretty sure laying out credentials was meant to properly phrase her constructive contribution rather than unnecessarily denigrate someone on the internet.

I'm also a banker at a BB, and as much as I sympathize with how Jonathan feels, the way he chose to leave shows a complete lack of class and foresight. Furthermore, he is only compounding his problems by repeatedly writing condescending, petty posts and signing his full name. This type of behavior should be discouraged, not applauded. If you decide that banking isn't for you, as ivy ex-banker did, leave with dignity, experience, and contacts, not by throwing a hissy fit over email. You are a college graduate making an informed career decision, not a pre-schooler who wants more attention and another graham cracker.

Class = Sharing an exit e-mail with the world?

Maybe Jonathan should sue UBS.

Wasn't the Aleksey Vayner email also leaked by UBS?

Maybe Jonathan wasn't cut out to be a banker. Maybe Jonathan should have known what he was getting into. Maybe Jonathan didn't write the most articulate or insightful resignation letter.

But I credit Jonathan for doing something that so many people in today's society fail to do: recognize that they're not happy and make a change. How many people do you know who get stuck doing something they hate and never have the courage or ability to make a change? How many people do you know who have convinced themselves that the accumulation of wealth is eventually going to make them happy?

I wish Jonathan the best and hope that he finds fulfillment in whatever he does next. That's all that really matters.

Anon 3:12, you are one of the most insecure, delusional people on earth.

-guys who actually have a personality and don't look like shit can attract any woman, even if they are unemployed quitters like Jonathan

-NYC life includes riding around in vomit-smelling taxis, buying overpriced drinks at overcrowded crap bars, being reamed by your landlord every month on rent and sharing the city with useless wealthy old people and trash from staten island

-i'd rather buy land in the pacific northwest than what amounts to space in someone else's property, which is what a "coop" or condo amounts to

-i don't think anyone in new york drives, be it Korean, German or Japanese vehicles. But you're still in HS in the midwest so you wouldn't know

Jonathan, good move. You're really not missing out on anything in NYC.

Chinese analysts make $1200/month. How long til outsourcing hits the NYC analyst community? Life in Shanghai will make you appreciate the LIRR.

I don't think the solution is more pay or less workload for analysts. The banks just need to take a step back and weed out all the work that doesn't benefit anyone in the long run. For example, instead of going after every potential client no matter how much of a long shot it is, why not go after the ones that are most likely to respond well to the pitch? That way, you won't have analysts putting together 200-page books that won't amount to anything in the long run. Clients also find it okay to put ridiculous deadlines on the banks becasue no one at a bank ever says "no, that's unrealistic." Banks need to begin treating clients like business partners rather than gods who need to be appeased and served at any cost.

Jon, I knew you'd do it. You're far too creative!